[b-hebrew] Numbers 16:21

[Mike Burke]

Is it truethat two different words in the Hebrew are rendered congregation in this verse (and Num. 16:19), and that this could indicate that the congregation that followed the summons of Korah to the tabernacle may have been much smaller than that of all Israel?

The only word for "congregation" that I see is  עדה.

 
Michael Gerard Burke

[Donald Vance]

There is only עדה.

Donald R Vance

Sent from my iPhone

Is it true that two different words in the Hebrew are rendered congregation in this verse (and Num. 16:19), and that this could indicate that the congregation that followed the summons of Korah to the tabernacle may have been much smaller than that of all Israel?
The only word for "congregation" that I see is עדה.
Michael Gerard Burke
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[Yigal Levin]

True, but in 16:19 the word appears twice. Maybe that's what confused Michael.



Yigal Levin



From: b-hebrew-***@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-***@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Donald Vance
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:37 AM
To: Mike Burke
Cc: b-***@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Numbers 16:21



There is only עדה.



Donald R Vance

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 21, 2013, at 10:43 PM, Mike Burke <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

Is it true that two different words in the Hebrew are rendered congregation in this verse (and Num. 16:19), and that this could indicate that the congregation that followed the summons of Korah to the tabernacle may have been much smaller than that of all Israel?



The only word for "congregation" that I see is עדה.



Michael Gerard Burke

[Donald Vance]

Yes it does. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Donald R. Vance

Sent from my iPhone

Post by Yigal Levin
True, but in 16:19 the word appears twice. Maybe that's what confused Michael.
Yigal Levin
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:37 AM
To: Mike Burke
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Numbers 16:21
There is only עדה.
Donald R Vance
Sent from my iPhone
Is it true that two different words in the Hebrew are rendered congregation in this verse (and Num. 16:19), and that this could indicate that the congregation that followed the summons of Korah to the tabernacle may have been much smaller than that of all Israel?
The only word for "congregation" that I see is עדה.
Michael Gerard Burke
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[Rev. Bryant J. Williams III]

Mike,

There are two Hebrew words that normally translated "congregation." QAHAL and `EDAH." What is interesting is that the two words are translated in the LXX by several different words, of which, two are primary.

1. QAHAL (assembly) is normally translated in the LXX by EKKLHSIA (assembly; Church [unfortunately, this latter word has lead to horrible theology: there was NO CHURCH in the OT. Don't go there.] ) in the majority of instances, but also by OCHLOS (crowd) and PHLTHOS (multitude). What is striking is that in Genesis, Leviticus, Numbers and Ezekiel 32:23 QAHAL is translated by SYNAGOGH.

2. `EDAH is normally translated by SYNAGOGH (congregation; transliterated into English as Synagoge). Of the 225 times in the LXX SYNAGOGH is word used, but there are 34 times that has no Hebrew equivalent.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

[Isaac Fried]

The word עדה EDAH, 'congtegation', of the uni-literal root D,
appears to be a variant of עוד OD, 'more', and of עו֌ז UZ,
'collect', as in Ex. 9:19. Also of
עדד, עזז, עסס, ע׊ץ, עשש
and also of
אד, אז, אט, אץ, אש, את

The tri-literal root קהל QHL is a variant of
גחל, *חגל, חקל, כחל
GXL, XGL, *XQL, KXL

It also resembles LHQ להק of LHAQAH, 'group', as in 1Sam. 19:20.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

Post by Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
Mike,
There are two Hebrew words that normally translated "congregation."
QAHAL and `EDAH." What is interesting is that the two words are
translated in the LXX by several different words, of which, two are
primary.
1. QAHAL (assembly) is normally translated in the LXX by
EKKLHSIA (assembly; Church [unfortunately, this latter word has
lead to horrible theology: there was NO CHURCH in the OT. Don't go
there.] ) in the majority of instances, but also by OCHLOS (crowd)
and PHLTHOS (multitude). What is striking is that in Genesis,
Leviticus, Numbers and Ezekiel 32:23 QAHAL is translated by SYNAGOGH.
2. `EDAH is normally translated by SYNAGOGH (congregation;
transliterated into English as Synagoge). Of the 225 times in the
LXX SYNAGOGH is word used, but there are 34 times that has no
Hebrew equivalent.
Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
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[Donald Vance]

QHL (קהל) as a noun does not occur here, only עדה. The H stem of the root קהל occurs in 16:19. None of this negates what Bryant said.

Donald R Vance

Sent from my iPhone

Post by Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
Mike,
There are two Hebrew words that normally translated "congregation." QAHAL and `EDAH." What is interesting is that the two words are translated in the LXX by several different words, of which, two are primary.
1. QAHAL (assembly) is normally translated in the LXX by EKKLHSIA (assembly; Church [unfortunately, this latter word has lead to horrible theology: there was NO CHURCH in the OT. Don't go there.] ) in the majority of instances, but also by OCHLOS (crowd) and PHLTHOS (multitude). What is striking is that in Genesis, Leviticus, Numbers and Ezekiel 32:23 QAHAL is translated by SYNAGOGH.
2. `EDAH is normally translated by SYNAGOGH (congregation; transliterated into English as Synagoge). Of the 225 times in the LXX SYNAGOGH is word used, but there are 34 times that has no Hebrew equivalent.
Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
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[Rev. Bryant J. Williams III]

Dear Donald,

I know that. I gave the information for QAHAL and `EDAH for the benefit of all.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

[Chavoux Luyt]

Hi

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 11:34:07 -0400
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Numbers 16:21
The word עדה EDAH, 'congtegation', of the uni-literal root D, appears to
be a variant of עוד OD, 'more', and of עו֌ז UZ, 'collect', as in Ex. 9:19.
Also of
עדד, עזז, עסס, ע׊ץ, עשש
and also of
אד, אז, אט, אץ, אש, את

Hmmm, I always assumed it was rather related to עד ED (witness) rather
than עוד OD... :-); being a collection of witnesses to an important event
or message.

Shalom
Chavoux Luyt

<http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>

[Isaac Fried]

A witness (related to wit and video, German: wissen) means in English
a person who saw something and knows about it. To what manifestation
of his act the Hebrew appellation ED refers, we may only guess.
Possibly to ADAD, and possibly to OD.

Isaac Fried, Boson university

Hi
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 11:34:07 -0400
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Numbers 16:21
The word עדה EDAH, 'congtegation', of the uni-literal root D,
appears to be a variant of עוד OD, 'more', and of עו֌ז UZ,
'collect', as in Ex. 9:19. Also of
עדד, עזז, עסס, ע׊ץ, עשש
and also of
אד, אז, אט, אץ, אש, את
Hmmm, I always assumed it was rather related to עד ED (witness)
rather than עוד OD... :-); being a collection of witnesses to an
important event or message.
Shalom
Chavoux Luyt
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...