[b-hebrew] A question on the Hebrew text

[Raymond Regalado]

Dear List,

I am a novice learner of biblical Hebrew, and I just wanted to ask a
question about the Hebrew text. To my knowledge, the text most
commonly used in Protestant Christian circles is the Biblia Hebraica
Stuttgartensia (BHS) published by the United Bible Societies. I wonder
which text is "standard" among the Jews themselves, or among Israeli
scholars. For instance, which text is "Israel's best Bible reader"
reading in this set of CD's:
http://www.solomonstreasurechest.com/HebrewBible.html ?

Thanks,

Raymond Regalado
Tokyo, Japan

[Maurice A. O'Sullivan]

For instance, which text is "Israel's best Bible reader" reading in this
set of CD's: http://www.solomonstreasurechest.com/HebrewBible.html ?

Raymond:
Purely for the record, having no involvement with them other than using
them, you might like to look at:
http://www.carmel.asso.fr/atelierducarmel/hebrewbible.shtml

where you will find _audio_ CDs ( not MP3 format ) which are available
either as part of biblical books or entire books.
Isaiah, for instance, is available in chaps 1-25, 26-44, 45-66. The overall
cost of the entire Tanakh is admittedly much higher, but the chance to buy
just one book -- or part of a book -- is a much gentler introduction <g>




Maurice A. O'Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]
***@iol.ie

[Yigal Levin]

Hi Raymond,

The first thing you must realize, is that most Jews and Israelis, just like
most Christians who are not professional Bible scholars, are not really
aware that there are differences between different versions of the MT, and
so to most, a Bible is a Bible, and if they even notice slight variations in
spelling or in cantilation marks between different prints, they don't give
them much thought. However unlike Christians, for whom Bible translaions
from the Greek onward are part of tradition, for Jews, the ONLY text that
"counts" is the MT.
So Jewish and Israeli academics involved in text criticism use the same
texts everyone else does, including BHS. But for most Jews, who use the
Bible for study and worship, the critical aparatus is irrelevant.
Jews use a wide range of editions, intended for different puropses. In
Israel, the most common one-volume edition of the entire Bible is the Koren.
It is based on the Leningrad Codex, but as I said that is irrelevant to most
people - the Koren is popular because of its very clear print-type. It is
widely used in schools because it has the whole Bible in one, easy-to-carry
volume. There are about a dozen other such one-volume, Hebrew only, Bibles
in print. Koren also has a "Humash" edition, that is, just the Torah,
divided into weekly portions, with the "Haftarot" (the readings from the
Prophets that are added to the weekly Torah portion) added at the back, as
well as a list of the special readings for holidays. Some editions also have
the Sabbath prayers in the back, which makes the very convenient for the
synagogue-goer.
For more serious study, from grade-school up, many people use
one-book-per-volume study Bibles, which include the text with some of the
classical (medieval) commentaries, such as Rashi, Radak (Kimhi), Ramban
etc., often with the Targum Onkelos as well. These are sometimes known as
"Miqraot Gedolot". There are dozens of such editions, and people chose them
for their layout and for the commentaries they have. Another edition that
used to be popular was the "Cassuto" Bible, one-book-per-volume with an
easy-to-read commentary by Artum.
About 20 years ago, the Rabbi Kook institute began publishing a series of
editions based on Breuer's stury of the Aleppo codex, including a text-only
version, a "Miqraot Gedolot"-type edition of the Torah, and a series which
includes a modern-but-traditional commentary which does incororate some
modern scholarship. These have become very popular in modern-Orthodox
circles.

Outside Israel, those Jews (mostly, but certainly not only, Orthodox) who
are comfortable without a translation tend to use Israeli texts. Most Bibles
with translations used in synagogues are "Humashim" (that is, just the Torah
with the Haftarot), with translations and English commentaries. There are
many editions. The most common translation in the US used to be the Hebrew
Publishing Company's, but I think that the JPS is now used more by scholars
and different "denominations" (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform etc.) tend to
have produced editions for use by their own congregations.

If anyone has anything to add, please do.

Yigal


----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Regalado" <***@mb.infoweb.ne.jp>
To: <b-***@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: [b-hebrew] A question on the Hebrew text

Post by Raymond Regalado
Dear List,
I am a novice learner of biblical Hebrew, and I just wanted to ask a
question about the Hebrew text. To my knowledge, the text most
commonly used in Protestant Christian circles is the Biblia Hebraica
Stuttgartensia (BHS) published by the United Bible Societies. I wonder
which text is "standard" among the Jews themselves, or among Israeli
scholars. For instance, which text is "Israel's best Bible reader"
http://www.solomonstreasurechest.com/HebrewBible.html ?
Thanks,
Raymond Regalado
Tokyo, Japan

[Peter Kirk]

Post by Yigal Levin
Hi Raymond,
The first thing you must realize, is that most Jews and Israelis, just like
most Christians who are not professional Bible scholars, are not really
aware that there are differences between different versions of the MT, and
so to most, a Bible is a Bible, and if they even notice slight variations in
spelling or in cantilation marks between different prints, they don't give
them much thought. However unlike Christians, for whom Bible translaions
from the Greek onward are part of tradition, for Jews, the ONLY text that
"counts" is the MT.

Not too much of the "unlike Christians", please. For most Protestant
Christians who know anything about such matters, the only authoritative
text of the Hebrew Bible is the "original Hebrew", not any translation.
And although they recognise that the precise "original Hebrew" is not
available, in practice most would consider the MT to be the closest that
we can get to it, although they might allow emendation where ancient
translations show a clear error in the MT.

Of course in practice nearly all Christians use translations because
they don't know Hebrew well enough. But all Protestant translations from
the 16th century onwards (and the more recent Catholic translations) are
based on the MT, with more or less emendation of apparent errors based
on LXX and other ancient translations.

[Maurice A. O'Sullivan]

Yigal:

Thank you for that very informative posting.

Post by Yigal Levin
So Jewish and Israeli academics involved in text criticism use the same
texts everyone else does, including BHS.

I am minded to enquire about the reception, and use of, :

Dotan, Aron, ed. Biblia Hebraica Leningradensia. Peabody, Mass:
Hendrickson, 2001.

in those circles.


Maurice A. O'Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]
***@iol.ie

[Raymond Regalado]

Post by Peter Kirk

Post by Yigal Levin
Hi Raymond,
The first thing you must realize, is that most Jews and Israelis,
just like
most Christians who are not professional Bible scholars, are not
really
aware that there are differences between different versions of the
MT, and
so to most, a Bible is a Bible, and if they even notice slight
variations in
spelling or in cantilation marks between different prints, they don't
give
them much thought. However unlike Christians, for whom Bible
translaions
from the Greek onward are part of tradition, for Jews, the ONLY text
that
"counts" is the MT.

Not too much of the "unlike Christians", please. For most Protestant
Christians who know anything about such matters, the only
authoritative text of the Hebrew Bible is the "original Hebrew", not
any translation. And although they recognise that the precise
"original Hebrew" is not available, in practice most would consider
the MT to be the closest that we can get to it, although they might
allow emendation where ancient translations show a clear error in the
MT.
Of course in practice nearly all Christians use translations because
they don't know Hebrew well enough. But all Protestant translations
from the 16th century onwards (and the more recent Catholic
translations) are based on the MT, with more or less emendation of
apparent errors based on LXX and other ancient translations.

Thanks all, for the responses, both on and off-list. I do recall
reading somewhere that for Greek Orthodox Christians, "the" Bible is
the Septuagint (with Apocrypha) and the Byzantine Greek texts of the
New Testament. In other words, Greek Orthodox Christians do not use
the MT. Am I correct on this one? Pardon me if this is off-topic.

Thanks,

Raymond Regalado
Tokyo, Japan

[Peter Kirk]

Post by Raymond Regalado
...
Thanks all, for the responses, both on and off-list. I do recall
reading somewhere that for Greek Orthodox Christians, "the" Bible is
the Septuagint (with Apocrypha) and the Byzantine Greek texts of the
New Testament. In other words, Greek Orthodox Christians do not use
the MT. Am I correct on this one? Pardon me if this is off-topic.

I think you are right. That is why I limited my remarks to Protestant
Christians.

[C. Stirling Bartholomew]

Post by Raymond Regalado
I do recall
reading somewhere that for Greek Orthodox Christians, "the" Bible is
the Septuagint (with Apocrypha) and the Byzantine Greek texts of the
New Testament. In other words, Greek Orthodox Christians do not use
the MT.

The world of biblical scholarship is a lot more complicated than this.
Russian Orthodox bible translation consultants who cooperate with SIL on CIS
minority languages use the MT as a primary text but also read the LXX
fluently.

Sevearl of the major LXX scholars are Jewish.

You can read the the MT without knowing Greek but it cuts you off from an
ancient commentary of significant value.


greetings,
Clay Bartholomew

[l***@mail.biu.ac.il]

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Maurice A. O'Sullivan ***@iol.ie
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:34:36 +0100
To: ***@mail.biu.ac.il, b-***@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] A question on the Hebrew text


Yigal:

Thank you for that very informative posting.

Post by Yigal Levin
So Jewish and Israeli academics involved in text criticism use the same
texts everyone else does, including BHS.

I am minded to enquire about the reception, and use of, :

Dotan, Aron, ed. Biblia Hebraica Leningradensia. Peabody, Mass:
Hendrickson, 2001.

in those circles.


Maurice A. O'Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]
***@iol.ie

I really don't know. It certainly has not become a "must" book, but I
assume that it is considered by people who deal with textual matters.

Yigal

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